____________________
The "Pinocchio" Award for Most Incompetent Liar
Eddard Stark. He could not be more horrible at playing the Game of Thrones. Eddard is that guy who throws rock forty times in a row. Could you imagine him playing poker? "Cersei, I am going to bluff you next hand."
The "Sebastian-Iago" Award for Annoying Talkative Animal
Mormont's raven. Seriously, shut up. We get it, you repeat what people say.
The "Fantasia" Award for Trippy Sequence
Bran's crow dream. This kid would make a killing selling that weed. Plus there's no way cops would pat down a cripple.
The "Dumbo" Award for Useful Facial Deformity
The Hound's burned face. Nobody fucks with him.
The "Bambi" Award for Most Traumatic Childhood
Bran Stark, by a mile. He witnesses an execution, watches incest, gets pushed out a window, becomes crippled, is held hostage by criminals, parts with everyone in his family, gives up on his childhood dreams to become a knight, and has creepy crow nightmares.
The "Cinderella" Award for Clock Striking Midnight
Sansa, when she realized life isn't a song. Imagine Cinderella retold in King's Landing. Joffrey meets his dream girl at the tournament ball. After charming her, he has the Kingsguard beat her. When she escapes at midnight, he searches the entire village for the girl with a black eye.
The "Alice in Wonderland" Award for Overwhelmed Character
Eddard Stark. It's exactly like the Alice story, only if Alice was actually beheaded at the end.
The "Peter Pan" Award for Never Growing Up
Rickon Stark. He's already four years old and can't even swordfight yet. However, he can speak with dead relatives, predict the future, and hangs out in underground crypts.
The "Snow White" Dwarf Sex Award
Obviously Tyrion. He's horny all the time. For a 1930's movie, Snow White would make quite a porn film. A pure, innocent virgin lives with seven male dwarves -- you can't make up a more kinky scenario. Walt Disney was a closet pervert, and I'm convinced Martin is too. Top three names if Tyrion was a dwarf in Snow White? (1) Ugly, (2) Wealthy, (3) Horny.
The "Winnie the Pooh" Award for Jolly Stupid Fat Guy
King Robert Baratheon. The guy completely mails it in for his reign, even failing to realize his kids look nothing like him.
The "Little Mermaid" Award for Lack of Walking Ability
Bran. He's crippled. Also Othor. Disney should remake the movie and instead call it The Little Finger, an inspiring tale of a commoner who dreams of climbing the treacherous King's Landing social ladder to woo the woman he loves by creepily stalking her daughter.
The "Beauty and the Beast" Award for Deviant Sexual Fetish
Cersei and Jaime. Twincest is the best put your sister to the test. I wonder what Cersei would think if she saw her kids doing what she and Jaime did.
The "Jafar" Deceptive Wizard Award
Three way tie. First, Mirri Maz Duur for tricking Dany into letting her kill Drogo and Dany's son. Second, Varys for his seemingly magical (but really child labor powered) all-knowing capabilities. And last but not least, Littlefinger for his cunning manipulation of the City Watch, Eddard, and young Catelyn's panties.
The "Magic Carpet" Award for Craziest Escape
Arya channeling Barry Sanders and using Jedi mind tricks to escape the Lannisters. If the category was "craziest failed escape," it would go to Mycah, who would have to give a two-part acceptance speech. Rimshot.
The "Jasmine" Award for Hottest Princess
Tie, Cersei and Daenerys. I guess they both are technically queens, but I doubt anyone would care. Oh, and Maege Mormont. The senility makes it that much hotter.
The "Mufasa" Award for Parental Death
Eddard Stark. His son Robb just can't wait to be king.
The "Rafiki" Award for Weird Talking Old Master
Syrio Forel. I really hope he survived Ser Marilyn's attack, but knowing the brutality of Martin's universe, Arya will probably have to ID his severed head.
The "Pumbaa" Award for Best Wild Boar
John Wilkes Boar. Also known as the wild boar who snuck up behind Robert and gored his fat ass.
The "Pocahontas" Award for Worst Racial Stereotype
The Black Brothers. Because they are only comprised of bastards, rapists, murderers, and thieves.
The "Quasimoto" Award for Likable Yet Ugly Guy
Tyrion Lannister. He is so very awesome yet so very ugly. One day, he will find his Esmeralda, and hopefully she isn't a whore that his dad paid for.
The "Mulan" Award for Transgendered Individual
Two-way tie. Arya, for being so unlike her sister that everyone mistakes her for a boy. And Loras, for being so, so gay.
The "Genghis Khan" Award for Top 10 Biggest Badasses
10. Arya
9. Robb
8. Bronn
7. Littlefinger
6. Tywin
5. Direwolves
4. Syrio
3. Greatjon
2. Drogo
1. GREGOR
The "Happily Ever After" Award for Top 5 Happy Moments
5. Jaime gets captured
4. Robb wins over the Greatjon
3. Jon gives Arya "Needle"
2. King in the North!
1. Dragons sing
The "Wildebeast Stampede" Award for Top 5 Sad Moments
5. Lord Karstark's dead sons
4. Catelyn tells Jon "it should have been you"
3. Dany loses everything
2. Bran is chucked out a window
1. Arya watches Beheaddard
*awesome* blog, been lol'ing hard since the beginning. keep on keeping on, cant wait for the next one!
ReplyDeleteJason,
ReplyDeleteI really hope that as you read the next three books, you take some time to come back to your earlier posts and see just how much some of your opinions change (as they probably will).
I'll wait for someone else to start bringing up all the conspiracy theories based off the material in the first book.
HAHAHAHAHAHA wow, what a great entry.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, your badass list is so hilarious. I liked how you hit the warm and fuzzy moments too.
amazing list. Have any overall impressions to offer? how does this stack up with the other fantasy series you've read? do you plan to continue?
ReplyDeleteThis post was so rewarding and entertaining and I can't wait until you hit the next book. Also props because the first time around my gaydar was not picking up on Loras at all.
ReplyDeleteThis entry was 100% win.
ReplyDeleteAre you planning on blogging A Clash of Kings?
This blog is one of the funniest I've read. I *really* hope you read the other books! Keep being funny!
ReplyDeleteThis blog is just win-win for every ASoIaF fan in the world.
ReplyDelete"John Wilkes Boar." Lawl.
I gotta agree haha. YOu've done a sick job blogging this so far, and I hope you continue.
ReplyDeleteJohn Wilkes Boar for president!
"If the category was "craziest failed escape," it would go to Mycah, who would have to give a two-part acceptance speech."
ReplyDeleteCraked me up. Pure genius!!
Looking foward to the 2nd book entries, keep up the good work!!
My top three theories as of when I finished the first book.
ReplyDelete1. Jon is Lyanna's boy by Rhaegar. ("Promise me, Ned.)
2. Benjen Stark is in cahoots with the wildlings, and may or may not actually be the king beyond the Wall.
3.Tyrion is going to ride a dragon. Nailed on since he talked about it with Jon.
Anyone else think any of these after one book?
I don't know if this counts as a spoiler, since you don't know about it yet, but Mance Rayder is the King Beyond the Wall.
ReplyDeleteI remember that all through the first book, as much as I hated her, I sided with Cat's version of the Littlefinger history. I thought he was just lying about having slept with her. I also took it for granted that if Meryn Trant was alive, Syrio was dead. The first sword of Braavos does not run.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, the Lyanna/Rhaegar theory is the biggest to come out of that book. That I know of at least. I didn't have any particular thoughts about Benjen after the first book, and I didn't think much about who would ride the dragons, either. By the end of the first book, the concern was that the dragons get to the point where they CAN be ridden for me, who the riders will be was jumping the gun a bit.
Arya didn't actually watch Eddard's beheading. Yoren covered her eyes. It was Sansa who actually saw her father's head being cut off.
ReplyDeleteStark the Wolf,
ReplyDeleteYeah, but I thought that since he used to be in the Night's Watch that Mance was actually his catspaw. And anyway, I said it was as of when I finished the first book, thus keeping it spoiler free...
You really think Mance's the sort of character that would let others manipulate him?
ReplyDeleteAnd it's not really a spoiler. I'm just stating a name.
BEST ENTRY so far! Very creative way to summarize the first book. Somehow, comparing a vicious, man-killing boar to a presidential assassin just makes him soooooo cuuuute. :)
ReplyDeleteHow about "The Fox and the Hound"-Sansa and Sandor......
ReplyDelete@ BluesBrother
ReplyDeleteLove theory number 1. I never thought about that but it totally makes sense. That would be awesome in so many ways.
Someone who's new to R+L=J? How very refreshing.
ReplyDeleteLOL I really liked this entry. Hope you keep it up with the next books.
ReplyDeleteAnd for the theories from the first book, I have to admit, I didn't even think of them until after they were pointed out via the Internet. Ah well...
Re: Syrio and Trant. (SPOILER ALERT)
ReplyDeleteI had wondered if Syrio replaced Trant, a'la Faceless Man.
1. Jon is Lyanna's boy by Rhaegar. ("Promise me, Ned.)
ReplyDeleteI thought about that but if it were true then Jon would have his (purple-ish) eyes right? maybe who knows?
2.I had wondered if Syrio replaced Trant, a'la Faceless Man.
I thought Syrio would end up being a faceless man, and also was the one who gave Arya the coin, or is the one who is teaching her at the temple?? Again who knows?
AnonyKim said... I remember that all through the first book, as much as I hated her, I sided with Cat's version of the Littlefinger history. I thought he was just lying about having slept with her.
ReplyDeleteYeah I have to agree with you on that. I thought LittleFinger was full of shit. And I also can't stand Cat.
WORST childhood:
ReplyDeleteGots to Sandor...At least Bran has/had people who loved him.
"You really think Mance's the sort of character that would let others manipulate him?"
ReplyDeleteAgain, it was as of when I finished the first book. We hadn't met Mance yet...
So why mention him and say he was being used as a catspaw?
ReplyDeleteI'm saying that was a theory I had after reading the first book. We hadn't met him but we had heard of him. Am I speaking a different language?
ReplyDeleteJon wouldn't have to look like Rhaegar to be his son - his mother is a Stark, he looks like a Stark. In fact, other than perhaps Arya, he looks more like a Stark than ANY of Ned's other kids - they all look like Cat.
ReplyDeleteAs a theory it makes sense because the one thing that made the LEAST sense (to me) was how Ned, the most honorabl pain in the butt to ever exist, could have had such a slip. It made no sense. It is actually much more in keeping with Ned's character for him to lie about Jon's parentage and sacrifice his own honor to protect his nephew and honor his sister's dying wish than it is for him to have an affair.
keep in mind that the targ from the hedge knight graphic novel had dark features because one of his parents was from dorne
ReplyDeleteI would love to see you do a summary of the book, tell us how you liked it,What you expect out of the next book, And when you will be starting.
ReplyDeleteBut I'd love to read Dance With Dragons too.
And hit the Powerball
I think this WAS the summary of Game of Thrones. He chose to do it in a humorous way, and hit it out of the park. Hilarious!!
ReplyDeleteAnd as an older man who doesn't re-read, because there's too many great books out there I have yet to read even once, this blog is great for keeping me refreshed on characters and plotlines.
On to Clash of Kings. :-)
Roland of Gilead
I understand that Jon looks like a Stark, hell more than likely he is Ned's sisters. But every character that was introduced that was half blood of the Targs while looking like the other parent they kept the Targ eyes or a duller variation of it anyway.
ReplyDeleteSo even though Mance Rayder isn't mentioned in the first book, you knew about him after reading the first book? And you just managed to figure out that Benjen Stark is the real overlord of the wildlings with Mance as his cat's paw?
ReplyDeleteAnd you managed to do all this even though you said that these were your thoughts by the end of the first book, implying that they've changed, yet you're still defending them?
See, I can be a douche bag too.
StarkTheWolf, I feel like BluesBrother is being pretty clear.
ReplyDeleteIn the first book, we hear that there is a "King Beyond the Wall" or whatever they call him. BB is saying that he came up with several theories when he finished the first book, one of which was that Ben was the real political/military/whatever power north of the wall. Some of the theories BB came up with following his initial read of GoT still hold, others don't. Some are still up in the air. Since this post was about what the reader thought AFTER THE FIRST BOOK, BB was simply listing some of the theories he had at the time.
Actually, StarkTheWolf, Mance is mentioned by Ned in the very first Catelyn chapter. Page 25 of my paperback. So, BluesBrother is telling the truth, not being "a douche bag" as you say.
ReplyDeleteSee, that's the problem with being a jerk on the internet. You mark your territory by making a brutal, triumphant point that says "GOTCHA." And you call them a rude name. But then you turn out wrong and look like "a douche bag" yourself. If only your tone had been more polite . . . .
StarkTheWolf is Mances "douche bag".
ReplyDeleteBut then doesn't my original point remain? That Mance is the King Beyond the Wall? Unless, you know, Benjen Stark just goes on random, long rangings into the woods during his Watch, and manages to make it back in time for his brother's party.
ReplyDeleteJust saying.
Yeah, you're right. How would Benjen be able to go on "random, long rangings into the woods during his Watch"? I mean, it's not like he's chief ranger or anything. Oh wait...
ReplyDeleteAnd no way would anyone that spends time beyond the wall make it in time for Ned's bash in the first book. Oh wait...
And well done, Mance is the king beyond the wall. And no way could he be a figurehead for someone else, that never happens. Oh wait... (Medvedev/Putin anyone?)
Just saying.
fuck i hate humanity
ReplyDeleteSo Chief Rangers go on random long rangings? They just up and leave when they feel like it?
ReplyDeleteAnd then, even though they're King Beyong the Wall, they manage to come back for Ned's bash without anyone noticing that he was gone for so long?
And yeah, Mance definitely has the personality to be a figurehead. You're so right. Benjen, this whole time, was actually commanding the wildling host with telekenisis, since we didn't actually see him in the encampment.
You unbelievable moron. How many times do you have to be told? The theories were those he held AFTER READING JUST THE FIRST BOOK. So, you mind-torturing cretin, the reader had not yet met Mance, nor been enlightened to his personality.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you compellingly ignorant tool, you do realise you just typed:
"And then, even though they're King Beyong the Wall, they manage to come back for Ned's bash without anyone noticing that he was gone for so long?"
Without giving away any spoilers, are you a total retard? Do you not remember who else was at that party?
StarkTheWolf fails for sure, but I would like it if no one mentioned their theories after book 1 or beyond. I would rather Jason only have his own insights to go on. It'll be more fun that way.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, I've only read each of the 4 books once (and that was 4+ years ago) and am no where near having "figured out" all the little lingering mysteries. Rather than continually reread and analyze the first books before the series is finished, I would prefer to be surprised when the plot twists GRRM intended to be shockers are intentionally revealed.
Just saying ...
@ the Anonymous with anger issues who seems to be raising his near-suicidal self esteem by trying to make creative insults (which fail):
ReplyDeleteSo if the reader had not met Mance, and yet Benjen was at the wall/ranging with a whole Night's Watch party when we first talk of Mance, how could he be the guy controlling them beyond the wall?
And yeah, I do remember who else was at the party. The difference is that one wasn't the brother of the liege lord of the North who would be recognized in an instant if he showed his face after joining the wildlings.
Before you call someone else a retard, by the way, make sure you know the correct way to type the English language.
When you have a quotation of 4 or more lines, that's when you use the colon and put the quote afterward. Oh, and you generally (actually, always) do it without quotations. But, you managed to combine both, and create something entirely new by using a colon on a 3-liner and then also putting quotation marks after the colon.
Just a grammar lesson for ya. Think about it, now you'll be ahead of all your other 9th grade classmates when you reach that milestone. :)
But yeah; you generally don't call someone else an idiot when you show signs of ignorance yourself. ;)
Well, you can, but it doesn't really do anything for you.
I love the anonymity by the way.
I think the point that is being missed is that the original Benjen/Mance theory was predicated on a SHADOW leadership/conspiracy. It doesn't sound like a case of Superman changing to Clark Kent, but of a figurehead taking SECRET orders from someone else. Meaning that none of the wildlings would necessarily have known or been able to identify Benjen.
ReplyDeleteFrom a first book perspective, knowing nothing about Mance's character, background, or reasonings, it isn't an entirely unplausible theory. Especially if someone is given to conspiracy theories. Benjen was first Ranger, so not only would he often venture beyond the wall, he'd be the most likely to go off on his own, leaving his other rangers at camp and wandering off for a few hours for a secret meeting. But if you really want to go deep conspiracy theory, why not have Benjen be Jeor's agent? The Old Bear could be in cahoots with Mance, the two of them working together. Jeor allows a certain amount of wildling parties past the wall every year in exchange for a cut of the takings. Plus, Jeor was desperate for more men, and as hard a time he was having, even those few wildling skirmishes could do nothing but help bolster his claims that the Wall was still relevant to Westeros safety.
Coulda happened.
Could've, but you know it didn't. Just like you know that it's pretty much physically impossible for Benjen to keep going beyond the Wall to control hundreds of thousands of loosely knit clans while also performing all the duties of the First Ranger and all the duties of a younger brother of a great house.
ReplyDeleteThis is a pretty useless argument, but it's fun seeing all the trolls get riled up when playing their own game.
Yeah, but I don't know that with nothing but the first book I would have known it wasn't very plausible. The big ranging hadn't happened yet so we hadn't had a POV perspective on what those were like, we hadn't met Mance or ANY wildlings so we knew very little about how they lived (I remember not even realizing they were human until far into the first book), the Old Bear was a grizzly fellow whose deepest thoughts were totally unknown, and all we knew of Benjen is that Jon liked him and he disappeared, and he was a kickass ranger.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think you're assuming too much about this theory when you say 'control hundreds of thousands of loosely knit clans'. First of all, I think that number is way too high. Second, the larger social structure of the wildlings wasn't clearly explained in the first book. Third, all that was necessary for this theory to be true is for Ben to meet with Mance every few months and say "do this" or "don't do that". Not terribly complicated, or time consuming.
Also, Ben had no duties as a Stark anymore, he gave up any claim to land or title when he took the black, which includes any necessary kow-towing. In fact, the Night's Watch official apolitical stance would require he NOT participate as a member of a ruling family from a great house.
StarkTheWolf said... Just like you know that it's pretty much physically impossible for Benjen to keep going beyond the Wall to control hundreds of thousands of loosely knit clans while also performing all the duties of the First Ranger and all the duties of a younger brother of a great house.
ReplyDeleteIt is not impossible for Benjen to control the wildlings or be King beyond the wall. Mance could be like a second in command who gets his orders from Benjen and carries them out. There is not that many duties of a first ranger and since Benjen is the Highest ranked first ranger he could do and get away with alot and nobody would know anything about it.
Since Benjen is in the Night-Watch he does not have "duties" of a younger brother of a great house like StarktheWolf claims.
I personally don't think Benjen is the Head of the wildlings.....but there is something fishy about his body never being found. So I think something is definitely going on with his character and it want be the last time we hear from him.
Okay, Stark the Wolf, three things.
ReplyDeleteOne - The rule about quotes and colons you mention is horseshit. It's guidance, nothing more.
Two - While I'm not going to bore anyone by actually pointing out all your grammatical errors, you clearly have no right to talk like that to anyone.
Three - Could you have thought of a more obvious method of deflection? I don't think so. Everyone thinks you're an idiot (see all those posts) and you've now realised this, so you make a huge thing about nothing in a desperate attempt to distract people from your own embarassing stupidity.
And you STILL haven't grasped the original concept of a theory formed after just one book. I'm guessing you're a religious man, being so stubbornly idiotic and all...
Keep it coming. Please keep it coming.
Actually, yeah, they're real grammatical rules. Like I said, once you're 13 or so, you'll learn about them in school.
ReplyDeletePlease point out my flaws. I'd love to know.
A more obvious method of deflection? Coming from the kid who got butthurt over the fact that I didn't agree with a theory? Yeah, that's not a sign of wanting attention or anything. When you say "all those posts", I think you mean the same 3 people (or maybe just one person? You're all anonymous).
And I have grasped the original concept of the theory. He said it was all about what he deduced after the first book. But then he managed to bring qualities of Mance from the second book in to the debate. That's the only reason the theory was convoluted.
AnonyKim: Think about it, though. Do you really think he went off DEEP into the woods all alone? Even though he was probably the most likely who knew about the Others/wights? And if he really wanted to have secret meetings with Mance, he'd have to go pretty deep into the forest - somewhere where other people wouldn't happen to interrupt them. There's also the whole issue of the First Ranger's safety, since that's most likely one of the Watch's biggest priorities. I don't think they'd just keep letting him go alone from time and time again. Even as a First Ranger, I'm pretty sure he'd still go in groups.
The "hundreds of thousands of wildlings" was an exaggeration, but you saw how hard it was in that time period to control even 40,000 men. And for one man to be directing them all, especially when he could only meet with them once a month or so (as you said) is quite a stretch.
And when I say he had duties to his family, I didn't mean as an actual lord or anything. I phrased that question badly. All I meant was that he still took time to visit his family, as indicated by when he went to the feast Ned held for Robert. That's all.
"There is not that many duties of a first ranger and since Benjen is the Highest ranked first ranger he could do and get away with alot"
Arguably, the First Ranger probably has the biggest burden next to the Lord Commander. He has to organize rangings, he has to watch over all the other Rangers, etc. I do agree that he'd have some leeway over others due to the prestige of his rank, though.
I see the theory as a valid comparison to the following: Mance was Darth Vader, and Benjen was the Emperor EXCEPT in this scenario, no one knows the Emperor exists.
ReplyDeleteAgain, we knew very little about the wildlings after the first book. We didn't know how well controlled they were, or how they were controlled, or how they functioned. We knew there was a king, but we didn't know if he had deputies or not, or how he got orders around, or if he even gave orders.
I'm sorry but Stark, I can't see any justification for your first reaction to this theory. I think it was quite clear what Blues Brother meant, and quite clear that you missed his original point. It's certainly not the most ridiculous thing someone has come up with, and with only the first book to work off, it was an easy enough theory to come up with simply because there was so little info to contradict it. It's a stretch because of the number of assumptions that must be made, but there wasn't anything to contradict those assumptions until book two. No amount of scrambling now is going to change the fact that you just messed up in your initial reading of the theory. No big deal, it happens. You can choose to be gracious about it with a 'yeah, I can see how you don't have to be insane to maybe have thought that', or you can keep being obstinate.
But I think this discussion is pretty much done to death.
My first reaction was "Mance isn't the type of character to act as a cat's paw."
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how that was invalid or convoluted. Granted, Mance's character wasn't really explained in the first book, but even when taking the other factors in to consideration, you can see that it's pretty damn hard for Benjen to relay commands to a battalion of wildlings while performing all the other activities I listed.
It was invalid because we didn't know that about Mance after just the first book.
ReplyDeleteAs for the 'other factors' I disagree, I think it would be pretty damn easy for Benjen to take 20 minutes every month or so for a secret meeting in the woods with one other person.
You're consistently misinterpreting what is being suggested here. No one is saying Benjen was relaying commands to battalions of wildlings. The suggestion was that he was giving Mance orders. So, he takes the Rangers into the woods on a regular trip. He goes off on his own for a little while, as is his perogative as First Ranger. Meets Mance behind a tree and says "We're going to be here at this time, you should attack us with this many people. Also, I think you should move your camp from here to there, by this date." They shake, and split. The end.
Not very complicated, or time consuming. Nor does it need to be done all that often. In a chain of command, the broadness of the orders decreases as you move down the line. So while Wildling Killer #1 may be telling the ten wildlings he leads 'stab that guy exactly this many times', the guy he takes his orders from is saying 'attack whomever you find in that area, leave no survivors', and the guy HE takes orders from is saying 'you're in charge of keeping intruders out of that general space' and Mance is telling THAT guy 'we need strong border patrol over there' and Ben is telling Mance 'rangers are going to be around for a while, beef up security'. Under no circumstances is it necessary for Ben to tell the first guy 'stab that dude exactly this many times'.
How many FBI agents do you think have met the President? How many have met the guy the President is secretly taking orders from?
You see Starky? He gets it.
ReplyDeleteYou're comparing a book to the chain of command of our government? And you'd be surprised: my friend works for the FBI Tax Evasion Unit, and the President actually visits pretty frequently. And he usually does give them broad orders in a congregation type of setting; he does NOT whisper it to the FBI Chief Head who then plays telephone with everyone else.
ReplyDeleteThe thing I don't understand with the 20 minutes is what is he going to tell Mormont? That he's going on a 20 minute ranging? Really? Does that make sense to you? Or is he just taking a good long piss at the bottom of the wall? Or is he sneaking out, and just manages to remain inconspicuous every time he sneaks out even though a bunch of people probably call on him at all times, and even though sentries probably challenge him. Don't forget that he'd either have to take the stairs to get to the bottom, or the lift, both of which are manned.
Do you really think Mance would be waiting for him behind a tree in close proximity? When they have hunting dogs, horses, sentries circling around a wide radius, and a bunch of other reinforcements? Or does he just travel 500 yards, once again telling his men that it was just a good, long piss? I don't know, I just don't see it happening. Maybe he does have telekinesis, though.
I have no idea what your next point has to do with this argument. The broadness of order increases? Yeah, maybe if you really want to get fucked over by relaying vague commands. The chain of command in the Marines (in which I served) goes like this: Colonel tells Lt. Colonel to attack at 1900 hours during the sandstorm with farshooters so that the enemy is more susceptible. The Lt. Colonel tells the Captain, who tells the Lt., who tells his squadron. The EXACT same order is repeated. Not "Kill whomever you please at whatever time you want. Just get the job done."
But this is fun. Keep it going.
And BluesBrother (aka Anonymous): it's a she, I believe.
No, I think you've made it very clear that you don't get it. Sooner or later a teacher has to say, "Sorry dude, no more extra credit opportunities, you just fail." Maybe someone else wants to run a summer school on 'Comprehensive reading and interaction', but it won't be me.
ReplyDeleteStarkTheWolf said... The thing I don't understand with the 20 minutes is what is he going to tell Mormont? That he's going on a 20 minute ranging? Really? Does that make sense to you? Or is he just taking a good long piss at the bottom of the wall? Or is he sneaking out, and just manages to remain inconspicuous every time he sneaks out even though a bunch of people probably call on him at all times, and even though sentries probably challenge him. Don't forget that he'd either have to take the stairs to get to the bottom, or the lift, both of which are manned.
ReplyDeleteWell for one thing if you are going to assume Benjen is Rogue then you might as well assume the small group of men who ride with him are to or at least most of them. And if that was the case then he would not have to sneak very much. You seem to forget that the wall is very under-staffed, to the point of having miles and miles and miles of no one else in sight. The only people who would patrol and go up and down those sections for weeks at a time would be Benjen and his men. So him actually meeting someone or sending messages would not be that hard. A wall is only made for a deterrent and to slow the oposition down. If you had the time and were working with both sides of the fractions then the wall would not be to big of an obstacle no matter how high. They simply do not have enough men to patrol it (kinda like our borders). Then you add message birds into the equation that could fly and meet you at any predetermined spot. Benjen and Mance seem to be smart and clever enough fellows it would not be to hard to achieve. I don't know just some thought's.
@ Jason: Awesome blog dude! I'm laughing my ass off reading your entries. I really hope you keep it up and I'm looking forward to some changes in perspective you're likely to experience in the next books.
ReplyDeleteRe: the aggravating argument in the comments
I feel you, AnonyKim! You gave it your best shot and I admire your patience, good manners and well, level of professionalism.
@ StarkTheWolf: I've never seen a person demonstrate so persistently such a blatant inability to comprehend what another person is trying to say. One other possibility is that you're too full of yourself to surrender even one inch on your glorious pedestal of self-deception. Or you're just a very bad loser. I rarely comment on blogs but I became so frustrated reading your posts that I almost started tearing my hair out. I'm not going to repeat what's already been said as I believe AnonyKim did an awesome job _trying_ to explain to you where exactly you were obviously wrong (and still unable to admit it).
In the likely event that you don't understand a single word that I'm saying I suggest you come back in a week when you've cooled off and reread the comments, paying special attention to AnonyKim! The only thing speaking in your favour is that Anonymous got a little too aggressive a little too fast, although you came in a close second.
In contrast, be sure to note the lack of offensive language in AnonyKim's posts and the resulting logical effectiveness (which you still somehow and inexplicably failed to perceive).
@ Anonykim: Way to go. Telling me I "fail" because I don't agree with what you're saying, even after I only took the factors from book 1 into play.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous #1: That's a good point, but don't you think it's a little implausible that his entire ranging party is in on his secret, too? That would increase the risk of the plan leaking about a hundredfold. And yeah, the Wall is undermanned, but it still has hundreds of members in the first book. I think they even mention that it was always patrolled in the first book.
@ Abbumaru: It's kind of hard to take what you're saying without a grain of salt, when you present no argument yourself, and only manage to show me you have no idea what you're talking about. Good manners? Level of professionalism? Are people with those qualities supposed to take snide personal jabs in their posts when arguing? Maybe it's just too subtle for you to see, I don't know.
I don't understand why you think my argument is flawed either. I just think you're either making an ad hominem argument, or you didn't read anything I said. Every factor I put into play is 100% true, and even if you exclude the other books' factors, the ones I mentioned from just AGoT are more than enough to disprove the theory. I understand what AnonyKim is trying to say - that's why I can argue against it. You apparently don't understand what I'm trying to say - or maybe you're just biased, I don't know. As for me cooling off: really? I don't think I'm the one going all out insulting people because they don't agree with me. Nor do I make several long winded paragraphs full of personal attacks. In fact, I don't even go out of my way to tell someone they're annoying me on a blog. But okay, kettle meet pot.
And what's with your next correlation? The more offensive language you use, the less logic you display in your post? What??
I mean, I guess it shows the mediocre reasoning in your post, but I don't think that's a rule that applies to most people. Sorry champ.
It's not that you disagree with the thing, no one's going to care about that. I posted the thing 'cause I was interested in what other people thought after the first book.
ReplyDeleteIt's just that you were arguing against it using your knowledge of the other books, and you just. Would. Not. Stop. Doing. That.
Plus, I don't think anyone else is having a problem envisioning the type of conspiracy I was suggesting. You seem to be incapable of believing that anyone can act with intelligence or guile, or that people can do so together without one of them running off and telling someone.
I sincerely hope you were joking about being a military man. Otherwise we're all screwed.
StarkTheWolf said... That's a good point, but don't you think it's a little implausible that his entire ranging party is in on his secret, too? That would increase the risk of the plan leaking about a hundredfold. And yeah, the Wall is undermanned, but it still has hundreds of members in the first book. I think they even mention that it was always patrolled in the first book.
ReplyDeleteWell I understand what your saying about telling alot of people and in turn they go get drunk down at "Moles-Town" and start to blab....But Benjen ranged with only a half of dozen men. While I still believe six men is to many to keep a secret like that, these would not be any ordinary six men. Benjen trusted these men above all others. So these men would be pretty damn tight together, so it would not be impossible that they would also look out for each other and keep there mouths shut? I think six men like that would follow Benjen to hell and back, and it would take some balls to go into that forest with only six men. Or you could look at it this way if they talked they would lose there head. And to your other point about the Wall having hundreds of members... Yeah that's true but they are all clumped together in three different groups seperated by untold miles apart.
ST.................CastleBlack................EW
Yeah they have places in between them but they are unmanned and because of that falling apart. So one could assume that Benjen and his six men did most of the patroling in between those walls. So in conclusion like I said in a earlier post I don't think Benjen is in with Mance but it would have been possible. But feel free to disagree we all are waiting on Jason's next post anyway and have nothing else to talk about.
Arya is the Bambi of this story.
ReplyDeleteWait until Thumper, and Flower come into the story!
that's coming up soon.
BluesBrother: the fact you're disgracing me for serving my country when you're probably a fat piece of shit sitting inside your basement making up theories for a book series. Well, that's pretty funny.
ReplyDeleteI don't ask people to thank me for doing what I'm obligated to do. I do, though, take offense when random little jerkoffs on the internet try to act hard from behind their computer screen.
Also, no one else agrees with your theory. The only other people who argued against me were AnonyKim (who has admitted its implausible) and several different anonymous trolls (all of whom were probably you).
AnonyKim, it was a nice try. I have a different approach.
ReplyDeleteStarkTheWolf, at the end of the first book, did YOU have any theories about what would happen next? And were any of them proven wrong?
That's what BluesBrother was talking about. And believe me, HE KNEW his theory was incorrect. As did everyone else. No one needed for you to prove him wrong. And nobody needed you to call him a douche bag. Nomsain?
You know it's pretty funny your calling all the anonymouses trolls. Is StarkttheWolf your real name? I was just trying to offer you a reason why it would be possible.
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify: when I said 20 minutes, I meant he'd take 20 minutes while ALREADY off on a ranging mission, not straight from the Wall. The latter would just be silly.
ReplyDeleteHar! Good one, Starky. "Disgracing you for serving your country." You berk. I was just calling you an idiot.
ReplyDeleteAnd I didn't say anyone else agreed with the theory, I said they could envision it. By which I mean they understood it without having to have it explained to them about seven different ways by as many people. (That's me calling you an idiot again, it's not a slur against your unit or anything.)
wakiki, I didn't have any theories. I don't read a book, and then spend the next 5 years of my life trying to discern it. I try to enjoy it for what it is.
ReplyDeleteGhost, my real name is Dylan Muller. Go look it up.
Anonykim, even if he does that, wouldn't his men be suspicious that he went alone or at least be obliged to tag along since he's one of the Wall's most valuable members?
BluesBrother, what the fuck are you even talking about? And what the hell is Starky? Some kind of gay pet name you have for me? And yes, "har!"
I like how you're trying to sound somewhat smart by saying berk instead of just stupid. Too bad it's not really a fitting word here considering you've never exploited me. But yeah: "har!"
You actually implied that other people agreed with it. I can envision it too, if that's the case; you have some fanciful wishing that this is your normal fantasy book where a shady looking character actually turns out to be evil. I bet you learned that from reading all those picture books where the characters' eyes are shifty when they're evil. Good job, it seems to have gotten you pretty far in life.
7 different ways by Anonykim, yourself, and several Anonymous. Let's see what's wrong with that:
AnonyKim has been flamed to hell and back all over this board from what I've seen. She also seems to have this subtle pretentiousness to her that she refuses to acknowledge.
You, sir, are just incapable of fathoming anything. Either you're too stubborn to admit that you're theory had way too many impossible, conflicting factors, or you suffer from periodic mental lapses.
As for the Anonymous people: they're all probably just you. You all type the same, so I'd say it's a fair assumption.
Anyway, I enjoy civil debates more than an argument where the main idea is calling someone an idiot. But apparently that's the best you can do, so please continue.
I didn't think my pretentiousness was subtle at all. I'm an intellectual snob and not apologetic about it. It doesn't interfere with my life much because I just don't associate with people I consider beneath me.
ReplyDeleteIt's a strategy I recommend to everyone.
StarkTheWolf said...As for the Anonymous people: they're all probably just you. You all type the same, so I'd say it's a fair assumption.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't know about the other Anonymouses these dates and times below that I listed is when I commented. Most of the comments were to you explaining how your super-hero Benjen could be in cohorts with Mance. Hell it was just one way in a 100 that could explain that it was Possible. I didn't realize that I typed the same as blues-brother or that you were an expert in such matters.
September 20, 2009 9:37 PM
September 20, 2009 9:46 PM
September 21, 2009 5:23 PM
September 22, 2009 7:55 PM
September 23, 2009 11:36 PM
September 24, 2009 7:43 AM
September 24, 2009 4:06 PM
I don't know, none of those arguments had even one fiber of truth that wasn't debatable. To each his own, though.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you're the same as BluesBrother, but some of these other Anonymous pretty much use the same rhetoric.
Why are you getting so offended anyway? It's the internet, chill out.
And AnonyKim, that's pathetic. You either have really low self esteem and have been driven away from society because of it, or you're just narcissistic. Maybe a combination of both.
Technically I don't think StarkTheWolf called anyone a douche bag other than himself. "See, I can be a douche bag too" only implies other people are douche bags. Like "Am I speaking a different language?" implies ignorance on the other end. He didn't say, "BluesBrother, you fucking douche bag!"
ReplyDeleteLacking any evidence that Jason is moving on to A Clash of Kings, I'm having a blast reading this. The whole argument started because one person gave an opinion about a previously disproved theory. And it spun out of control from there. That's classic internet.
(Look at it this way - back in ye olde days we used to argue through Letters to the Editor. It took a lot longer to call one another douchebags.)
Personally, I still think something was up with Benjen (though not the "cahoots with Mance Rayder" thing). Do we even know why he went to the Wall? I'm not sure that was even mentioned in the story. It's almost as though GRRM were keeping that one close to the vest - that or he was just a throwaway character used to usher Jon to the Wall. And now he's Coldhands. Allegedly.
And don't come at the military, people. I got nothin' against the Marines. It was the damned U. S. Army that shot at my ass in Panama, and I still love those grunt-ass fucktards. Friendly fire ahoy.
USAF '86-'94
And yes, I enjoyed my air conditioned vehicle. Still do.
"...you're theory had way too many impossible, conflicting factors"
ReplyDeleteYou're doing it again, Starky. Again. Seriously, first book only.
"Why are you getting so offended anyway? It's the internet, chill out."
I don't even know where to begin with this. Just read back and see who actually got offended. Oh yeah, it was you.
"I like how you're trying to sound somewhat smart by saying berk instead of just stupid"
What the hell are you takling about? You really are one of those people at the town hall meetings, aren't you?
"You actually implied that other people agreed with it."
Now you're just flat out lying. Where did I imply that?
"I don't read a book, and then spend the next 5 years of my life trying to discern it"
Er, I don't think anyone else here does either. I just remember what I thought at the time. There's that concept again, though, and I know you struggle with it.
Talking to you, sir, is like talking to a dining room table...
BB (cool new nickname, I bet you think it's the height of cunning:
ReplyDelete"You're doing it again, Starky. Again. Seriously, first book only."
Yeah, the first book had way too many conflicting factors. Sorry you couldn't understand the first time.
"I don't even know where to begin with this. Just read back and see who actually got offended. Oh yeah, it was you. "
You tell me. Who got offended? Who's the one that actually started being a dick because I didn't agree with the theory he worked so hard on? It's pretty funny man, because you're like a 16 year old kid, and you're trying to be so cool... on the internet.
"What the hell are you takling about? You really are one of those people at the town hall meetings, aren't you?"
Not understanding what I mean either shows the gauge of your intelligence (not very high), or it shows you just don't know what the word means, so I'll explain it.
Berk: a stupid person that can be taken advantage of.
^ Your prom date (you probably won't get one), maybe some friends (you probably don't have many). Something like that.
"Now you're just flat out lying. Where did I imply that?"
"Plus, I don't think anyone else is having a problem envisioning the type of conspiracy I was suggesting. "
You either don't know what envisioning means, or maybe it was a poor choice of words, since obviously I know what your theory is about, or we wouldn't be having this argument. But anyway, because of me giving you the benefit of the doubt of not being legally retard, I assumed that by envisioned, you meant agreed, since some Anonymous people (probably yourself) were arguing for you.
"Er, I don't think anyone else here does either. I just remember what I thought at the time. There's that concept again, though, and I know you struggle with it."
You sure? Because you're on a blog about a book, exchanging theories about a book, and reading shit about a book that came out 10 years ago. You're probably one of those guys that stays holed up in his house, trying to come up with conspiracy theories on multiple anonymous forums.
Talking to you, sir, is like talking to an 8 year old who starts screaming and crapping his pants if he doesn't get what he wants.
Dining room table. When I said envisioning I meant envisioning.
ReplyDeleteenvision - To picture in the mind; imagine.
Unlike your made up berk definition (it's slang for idiot or fool) that one's from the dictionary. So no, I didn't mean agreed.
And yes, I'm sure I haven't been in a basement thinking about theories for ten years. I don't like repeating myself but you're forcing me to make a habit of it. I was just remembering what I thought at the time. At the time. Get it? (Har! Who am I kidding? Of course you don't.)
Again, not in any way offended by you not agreeing with a theory. I say again. Read back and see who got offended. It was you.
And while I expect people like you to accuse me of trying to be smart if I use a word with more than seven letters, to get accused of it for writing berk instead of idiot, and typing initials, well, that just makes me feel sorry for you.
Dictionary.com:
ReplyDeleteBerk: A stupid person who is easy to take advantage of
You should probably stop talking. The fact you even had to look the word up after using it is pretty funny. But continue to use words you don't know, it makes it more fun.
Envision may mean to picture in the mind, and if you were able to read, you'd know that I understood and saw your theory completely; just that that's not the way you meant it, and you know that as well as I do. The context of it was all wrong, unless you're really just saying that it's hard for someone to see a theory (instead of saying for them to accept it, which would be a lot more appropriate). Everyone can SEE the fact that Puritans believed in God fiercely, or that teenagers believe marijuana isn't bad for you, or whatever. Just not everyone accepts it. It's ok: logical lapse; it happens.
I still think you're butthurt. You could keep denying it, but I did verbally brand your ass with my initials as a sign of complete ownage. I'd be pissed, too, if it were me. :)
Lol @ faggots trying to argue over who is typing better on someones blog.
ReplyDeleteAnd a large lol @ the faggot who is somehow using his career in the army to gain leverage in a fantasy novel conversation. what a tool, he's probably in the coast guard.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait for Stark the Wolf to say something. He's going to dignify my trolling by letting it get into his camoflauge panties and saying things like butthurt. i never knew soldiers used 12 year old internet meme's
ReplyDelete12 year old girls that is
ReplyDeletegod i am quivering with anticipation at the well-rounded response that that faggot is going to churn out. then we can all get another giggle.
ReplyDeletehis friend is in the fbi, in case you did not read. i know you all give a flying fuck.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell is point of you guys arguing? It's not like any of you are ever gonna meet in real life.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know why my first response got deleted?
"I did verbally brand your ass with my initials as a sign of complete ownage."
ReplyDeleteNo way, no way were you in the army. Unless they're letting in, as Anonymous says, 12 year olds.
Starky, if you read back through all these comments you'll see that not one person thinks you're anything but an idiot, or at best just very mistaken. You've lurched from one point to another as quickly as everyone else has revealed each point as the musings of a half-wit, and yet you have the audacity to say something like that. You utter clown. You're actually pleased with yourself, although neither I or anyone else has any clue why.
My personal favourite of your nonsensical ramblings, by the way, was when you said I was stupid for calling you a berk, as the word implies that I have exploited you in some way. Then you actually type out the dictionary definition that proves you wrong. Priceless.
Good fucking lord this comments section is a mess. Thanks for trolling it all up, the whole sorry lot of you. You know who you are. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
ReplyDeleteWith that out of the way, just wanted to say thanks for the laughs, this has been a fantastic blog to read. Can't wait for you to start back up again on the next book!